Quantcast
Channel: TriumphStag.NET - Triumph Stag dot Net Forum
Viewing all 1781 articles
Browse latest View live

Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
You have connected the relay correctly. I just checked the wiring diagram for Stags with air-conditioning and found that these models do have a relief (A/C) relay (on the relay panel behind the glove box, should be the one in the bottom left corner). Since you have the problem with the starter relay, your Stag must be the version with A/C. The reason why the starter relay is still holding when you release the key from the "start" position is because your car has an extra red/white wire (off the main red/white to the starter solenoid) which is connected to the A/C (relief) relay to disable it while cranking and switch off the blower fan, compressor clutch etc. to unload the battery. Due to the way how the A/C relay is wired, when you release the key from "start", the coil of the A/C relay and the coil of the new starter relay remain connected in series and, since there is +12V on the A/C relay, the coils of both relays get 6V which is enough to still hold the new starter relay in "on" position. This is because the standard cube relays are too sensitive for this particular installation - 6V will not switch them "on" but if they are already "on" it will hold them in that position.

You have two options:

1. Cut the red/white wire going the A/C relay leaving sufficient length on the relay side; connect the remaining red/white of the relay side to the ground; insulate and leave the other side unconnected. In this way, you will lose the "relief" function but this will not matter if your air-conditioning has been removed. If you still have the air-conditioning, you can always manually switch it off before starting the engine (manual "relief").

2. Replace the cube relay with a stronger relay (motorcycle starter relay or universal small starters relay, like on the pics below; they are cheap and easily available from Ebay; you can also get one from motorcycle parts shops but the genuine ones could be quite expensive). These relays will not be affected by the connection to the A/C relay and you will still have the "relief" function and even better current "bang" on the starter solenoid.











Relay Panel - A/C relay is at bottom left


My installation of Starter Relay


Miki

[stag] administrivia: notes on using this list

$
0
0
Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ"

These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on
the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web
at [www.digest.net]

[last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only
one filtering on them -- rpw]

Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at
[www.digest.net] and
[www.digest.net]

Table of Contents

1. Why don't my postings go through?
2. Why can't I unsubscribe?
3. How do I post to the list?
4. Where are the archives?
5. What other lists are on digest.net?
6. Is there a web subscription form?
7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)?
8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency?
9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway?

The Meta-FAQ

1. Why don't my postings go through?

There are several things that may interfere with postings
making it to the list.

a) Are you a member?

Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list
in email. Persons who read the list via email are
automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not,
and need to contact me (rwelty@krusty-motorsports.com) and get
your name added to the list of "permitted senders".

b) has your email address changed?

some of you have had changes in your email address. your old
address still works, and is still on the list, but your From:
line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons;
you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place,
or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system.

you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe
the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure
out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional
majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to
probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo@digest.net
with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to
check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of
bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent:

which flintstone
which bedrock

note that the matches above might return any of the following
addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can
use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool):

Fred.Flinstone@bedrock.org
fflinstone@wilma.bedrock.org
flintstonef@bedrock.com

c) do you have more than one email address?

if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact
me (see 1.a) above for relevant information)

d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features"
of your mail client?

[this section is no longer operative, as the demime software
now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from
postings automatically.]

e) are your posts too large?

there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done
for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to
get mail through.

f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message?

administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things
like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious
majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or
misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp,
g3t, etc.)

g) are you triggering spam traps?

some things are red flags; for example, many phrases found
commonly in spam are automatically blocked.

h) are you using "funky" character sets?

[7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11]

unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set
other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to
avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts,
national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc.

i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply?

You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal
size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length,
and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't
make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is
intentional.

j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay?

See [www.digest.net] for more information
about Digest.Net policies about email.

k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"?

If so, you may be running afoul of spam control severices
(again, see [www.digest.net])
When these services register a hit, the error code 550 is returned.
550 is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as
"user unknown". The "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail
traffic on digest.net may be viewed at
[www.digest.net]
Some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet
program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com
and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical
knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime
after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.)

l) Is SMTP over TLS involved?

This is a bit esoteric, but as of 8/8/01 the digest.net mail server
will attempt to use "TLS" (Transport Layer Security) for outbound
mail if the destination mail server offers it. SMTP over TLS is
fairly new technology, and a bit buggy. I am monitoring the logs
on the server, and when I see TLS related problems, I manually
place the problem destinations on a special exception list; however,
this may delay email to the destination host until I make the
exception.

2. Why can't I unsubscribe?

a) are you using the right address?

send to majordomo@digest.net, and the command format is

unsubscribe list-name my-email-address

b) has your email address changed?

majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone@BarneyCo.com was
once fflintstone@bedrock.org. you can check this with the which
command (see 1.b) above for details)


3. How do I post to the list?

You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest
may be reached using either bmw@digest.net or bmw-digest@digest.net

If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show
up, check out the stuff in 1. above.

4. Where are the archives?

see [ftp.digest.net] for digest archives. the web archives have
proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack
on the problems they've been having.

5. What other lists are on digest.net?

see [www.digest.net] for more information.

6. Is there a web subscription form?

Yes, recently added. go to

[www.digest.net]

7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)?

The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly
to provide for efficient management of the various automotive
mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted
it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought,
paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues.

8. How do i contact the Server Administrator in an emergency?

If my regular email address (rwelty@krusty-motorsports.com)
isn't working for you, you can fall back on rwelty@suespammers.org

9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway?

Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a
business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty
(rwelty@krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is an S-Corporation in
the State of New York. Krusty provides a number
of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites,
pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues.
For more information, see the web site.

Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
Ed,

I am not completely sure that the bottom left relay is the A/C (relief) relay. Just make sure you find a relay with a red/white wire connected to it. To verify (before you cut the wire) unplug the identified relay first and try starting the engine. If the new starter relay does not "stick", you have found the correct relay on the panel.

Another way to identify the A/C relay is to disconnect the red/white that was connected to the starter solenoid (now connected to the new starter relay) and attach a longer wire to it that you can bring to near the relay panel. Switch the ignition only "on" (do not turn to "start"), touch the ground somewhere with the wire brought in from the red/white and see which relay clicks.

Miki

Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
Hi Miki,

My car did, indeed, have a/c. No longer in the car.

I wanted to send you a picture of my board as I only see 1 white/red wire and it is going to what I THOUGHT was the starter relay? But for some reason I cannot attach the photo to this email. not sure how to send you what I have? can you advise on that?

But the relay in question, has 4 wires attached to it: larger brown, brown/purple, white/red and white. is this perhaps the a/c relay you are referring to? if so, do I understand you correctly by stating I should cut this white/red and ground it from the relay? and leave the other end un-attached?

if you can provide your email I can send you the picture from my board?edkleinstuber@verizon.net is my email address.

I want to thank you very much for helping with this. it is very frustrating the EJ Ward has not responded at all.

kindly
Ed

Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
I have seen your picture; since only one relay on your panel has a red/white wire, then that is the one. You do not need to cut the red/white, just disconnect it from the relay and try starting the engine, it should work fine. With the red/white off the relay, your cabin blower fan may not work. If this is the case, just install a new wire to connect the now free terminal on the panel relay to the ground. In this way, you will maintain the disconnected red/white at the panel in its original condition.

Miki

Re: [stag] Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
I would be very grateful if someone can tell me what the EJWard relay
system does.

When I first bought my Stag it had a relay on the left side inner wing.

The Red White from Ignition switch was split into two wires using a
piggy back terminal which then both supplied a relay terminal.

Another relay terminal went off the to the starter motor.

The other wire was to earth.


The car suffered click nothing quite frequently.

Even with my hopeless understanding of electrics I could see no point
in this relay. I removed it wand ran the Red wire stright through to
the starter as per original wiring.

No change

The click nothing was solved by fitting a new starter since when it
has not returned.

However after many miles of sitting next to an incredibly hot exhaust
pipe I expect click nothing to return eventually as the insulation in
the windings or the solder breaks down or the brushes wear out.

PeterH

Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
That did it! Thanks very much for your time and expertise.

Ed

Re: [stag] Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
The way how your first starter relay was wired does not improve the voltage/current to the starter solenoid, it merely saves the ignition switch contacts - when the key is turned to "start" there will be no spark on the ign. switch points but it will occur on the relay points (the relay switches "on" a split of a second after the key switch). This type of starter relay wiring was common on BMW-s and probably some other cars.

The EJWard relay system is wired in a way which will save the ign. switch contacts and also improve the voltage/current supply to the starter solenoid. It is wired very much like the old relay on your Stag that you described except that it gets +12V directly from the battery and the red/white wire that was on the starter solenoid connects to only one terminal of the relay (the terminal of the relay coil). Otherwise, EJWard's kit is not any special "system"; it is a convenient relay kit that comes with all the wires and terminals for easy "plug and play" with no modifications to the existing wiring. It uses a standard car relay and it would be easy to DIY (if you have some wires, wire terminals and a crimping tool).

Miki

Re: [stag] Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
I added a relay and had the same issue - starter remained engaged.

I
messed around a bit to the it to work properly. I recall adding another relay
on the control panel.

However, many years later I recall Randall, mentioning
to put a resistor of some value across the connections of the relay to solve
this issue with cars with AC.

Sujit


________________________________
From: Ed Keinstuber <EmailWitheld>
To: stag@digest.net
Sent:
Sunday, June 15, 2014 6:04 AM
Subject: [stag] Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD
post click nothing issue
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

Hi Miki,

My car did, indeed, have a/c. No longer in the car.

I wanted
to send you a picture of my board as I only see 1 white/red wire and it is
going to what I THOUGHT was the starter relay? But for some reason I cannot
attach the photo to this email. not sure how to send you what I have? can
you advise on that?

But the relay in question, has 4 wires attached to it:
larger brown, brown/purple, white/red and white. is this perhaps the a/c
relay you are referring to? if so, do I understand you correctly by stating I
should cut this white/red and ground it from the relay? and leave the other
end un-attached?

if you can provide your email I can send you the picture
from my board?edkleinstuber@verizon.net is my email address.

I want to thank
you very much for helping with this. it is very frustrating the EJ Ward has
not responded at all.

kindly
Ed
-------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from
TriumphStag.NET [www.triumphstag.net]

Re: [stag] Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
Adding a resistor (probably about 50 Ohm) across the terminals 85 and 86 of the cube type starter relay would likely solve the problem with "sticking" in the case of Stags with A/C. However, there is a risk that the resistor may overheat and blow during prolonged cranking which would bring back the "sticking" problem. I think that the safer method is to either disconnect the red/white wire from the A/C relay (and connect that relay terminal to the ground) or use a robust starter relay which will be unaffected (due to its strong return spring) by the small current of about 100mA still flowing through its coil from the A/C relay coil after the key has been released from the "Start" position.

Miki

Aluminium radiator

Re: Overdrive issue

$
0
0
Update:

I was ruling out electrical due to the OD never engaging in 1st or 2nd when activated by the gear lever switch. It only was ever in OD in those gears when it failed to disengage due to the delay in disengagement.

The filters and such behind the sump cover have been cleaned. Fluid has been topped up.

This morning the OD was quick to engage and disengage - as it should do. This afternoon the engagement was swift, disengagement too until nearly home after 12km when it disengaged quickly but as soon as I applied throttle the OD engaged again (in 2nd gear) and then took a good 10 seconds to slowly disengage again on its own - all this time the gear lever switch was 'off'.

Could be the solenoid is getting slow when hot...or gunk in that area...

Julian

[stag] Stag Digest Advertisers: regular posting

[stag] Re: stag-digest V4 #4451

$
0
0
See if you can look back through the archives I started quite a decent
discussion on the topic about a year ago. I ended up contacting about 15
people on eBay that bought various radiators from those guys and for complex
setups like Austin healeys they were not happy with them, for more simple
setups like the stag they were ok. No one really raved about them though.

Not that the two lugs on the bottom that the fan shroud bolts onto are just
pins and you would have to tap a thread on there yourself.

In the end I decided that it wasn't worth my risk and I bought a second hand
one which seems fine. One day I will save up and get it recored.

Look through their eBay feedback and see if you can find someone that has
bought a stag one and contact them.

Sent from my mobile device

>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 06:11:31 +0000
> From: "kenhockey" <EmailWitheld>
> Subject: [stag] Aluminium radiator
>
> -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
> Hi guys;
>
> Anyone had any experience with these?
>
> Just wondered..........
>
>
[www.ebay.com.au]
4.m1438.l2649
>
>
[www.ebay.com.au]
4.m1438.l2649
>
> Ken H
>
> ...

RE: [stag] Re: Overdrive issue

$
0
0
FWIW, not your issue, but worth keeping in the back of the mind
I had a specific issue where the overdrive would not engage after the oil was warmed up it ended up a part had cracked. .. hang on minute.. from the worksheet

ROADTEST TO CHECK OVERDRIVE N/W
TEST ELECTRICAL SYSTEM, WORKING OK
REMOVE SOLENOID AND SHUTTLE, MOVEMENT OK
REMOVE OVERDRIVE SUMP PLATE AND REMOVE PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE, FOUND DASH POT HAD BROKEN. WELD UP & REFIT
CHECK FILTER, OK
TOP UP WITH EPX 80/90
RUN OVERDRIVE UP CHECKING WITH PRESSURE GUAGE, SYSTEM WORKING.

The dashpot had cracked and the crack was hard to find


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stag@digest.net [mailto:owner-stag@digest.net] On Behalf Of J Kuipers
Sent: Thursday, 19 June 2014 5:17 a.m.
To: stag@digest.net
Subject: [stag] Re: Overdrive issue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update:

I was ruling out electrical due to the OD never engaging in 1st or 2nd when activated by the gear lever switch. It only was ever in OD in those gears when it failed to disengage due to the delay in disengagement.

The filters and such behind the sump cover have been cleaned. Fluid has been topped up.

This morning the OD was quick to engage and disengage - as it should do. This afternoon the engagement was swift, disengagement too until nearly home after 12km when it disengaged quickly but as soon as I applied throttle the OD engaged again (in 2nd gear) and then took a good 10 seconds to slowly disengage again on its own - all this time the gear lever switch was 'off'.

Could be the solenoid is getting slow when hot...or gunk in that area...

Julian

-------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from TriumphStag.NET [www.triumphstag.net]

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

$
0
0
Miki
At last I found time to look at this again

I have removed the coil and checked the supply at the ballast resistor
with ignition on.

I am seeing 11.98 volts at one side of the resistor
I am seeing 11.80 volts at the other side.
The ballast resistor resistance is 1.5 ohms
This suggests to me that the 12 volts from the starter is alive all the time.
I wonder how that can be unless the solenoid is shorting inside?

At the connection to the coil I am seeing 2.6 volts so there is some
weird voltage drop between ballast and coil but as the wires disappear
into the loom I cannot see what is going on in there.

I have never altered the wiring in this area so I am surprised I have
managed 100,000 generally trouble free miles and find this all very
puzzling.

I am drawn to making a direct visible connection that I can see
between the ballast resistor and the coil.

PeterH

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

$
0
0
The 12V from your starter solenoid is not permanently connected. The reason why you have similar readings on both sides of the Ballast is because the connection from the Ballast to the "+" of the coil is interrupted and there is no load (current flow) through the Ballast and thus no voltage drop. You get a very small voltage drop (11.98 to 11.80) which is caused by a very small current flow through the multimeter.

As I mentioned earlier, it is better that you use a bulb to test the current flow through the Ballast. You can use a headlamp bulb which draws similar current as the coil. Connect it between the ground and one and the other Ballast terminal. With the ignition on, the bulb should be bright on one terminal and dim on the other. Then you can safely connect the "dim" Ballast terminal directly to the "+" of the coil and try starting the engine.

Miki

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

$
0
0
Excellent Miki thanks for astonishingly quick and most helpful reaction.
So when the coil is back in series the voltage drop from the ballast
will show.


I have now found the fault.

There is a lucar connector on the white orange supply from ballast and
this pushes onto the coil + terminal.

There was no voltage but my multimeter has the piercing probes for
pushing into the wire sheath so I tested on the wire itself 1/2 inch
back from lucar connector and found 12 volts.

What has happened is the copper strands have gradually fractured at
the point where the connector sheath grip crimp ends. The sheath has
stiffened through age so there was no excessive flimsiness at that
point.

I have cut the terminal off and split the end bit to find 14 strand
1.00m sq standard single cable.
There are 14 short strands and a bunch of strands in the bare wire
crimp part of the terminal.


So this raises a new question.

If the strands have gradually been breaking I presume perhaps only a
few were connecting immediately prior to breakdown.
Would the very small area of connection, say only a few strands,
significantly reduced the supply to the coil to cause a weak spark on
take off.


If so, restoration of full cross sectional area of cable will remove
the issue.



One other question I have noticed I need to ask


The Bosch coil for Stag is asking for 1.8 OHM Ballast. (Its written
on the label)

How critical is this as the standard stag ballasts are 1.5 or 1.6 OHM?

Final point is that a multimeter with sharp points for piercing the
sheathing was invaluable when dealing with old stiff wiring. I don't
know how else I would have found the current was present just behind
the terminal.

See ebay item 151313776587 which has the screw on insulated crocodile
clips as well -

PeterH

Re: Overdrive issue

$
0
0
Another update.
Took the Stag for a good long drive yesterday and found the OD will engage swiftly every time. When warm it will at random take a far longer time to disengage than it should. So after a delayed disengagement it may work normally again for several times and thne play up again. The delayed action is usually after a longer period of engagement.
Hydraulic related issue as the OD will work in 1st and 2nd when it fails to disengage on time. It will disengage if the revs drop far enough as the hydraulic pressure thus also drops, but as soon as the revs rise the OD engages again, regardless of gear.

Julian

Re: [stag] Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

$
0
0
Miki
Thanks for explaining the EJWard Starter relay
So the basic outcome is improved ignition switch life, as there would
be less current in there, and improved supply to the solenoid.

I can see the advantage with regard to the switch but if the solenoid
clicks anyway, I don't see how the EJW improves the situation at the
starter.
If the solenoid doesn't click then yes I get it, but most cases are
click nothing.

At the end I think the starters get too hot in a Stag and the
internals deteriorate faster than the average car. My own click
nothing situation was solved with a new starter motor.

PeterH
Viewing all 1781 articles
Browse latest View live