Quantcast
Channel: TriumphStag.NET - Triumph Stag dot Net Forum
Viewing all 1781 articles
Browse latest View live
↧

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

June 8, 2014, 4:03 am
$
0
0
thanks miki
Good thought about having a wrong cvoil but I have checked the part
number and it is correct (413220030)
SO from your comment, since the car ran fine after cooling down I hope
the components are not damaged but I will carry spares.
thanks again
PeterH
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ignition coils suitable for the Stag are not easily available these
> days so the possibility is tat you got a coil that may not be
> correct even if wired via the bypass resistor. To find out, you need
> a good digital multimeter with a 200 Ohm resistance measuring range
> and check what the resistance is between the coil + and - terminals.
> Ignition coils evolved in the following sequence (approximate
> resistances):
>
> 1. 3 Ohm resistance - Contact Points, no Ballast
> 2. 1.5 Ohm resistance - Contact Points + Ballast
> 3. 0.5 Ohm resistance - Electronic Ignition only
>
> Contact points in cases 1. and 2. are often replaced with
> aftermarket electronic ignition designed for the said coil
> resistances (do you still have points or electronic?). The coil you
> got may be the third type i.e. 0.5 or 0.8 Ohm. If this is the case,
> then the problem you had was because the coil overheated (probably
> not damaged). At the same time, your contact points "burned" (if you
> have points) or your ignition module overheated (if you converted to
> electronic).
>
> So, you need to get the right coil (1.5 Ohm) and replace the points.
> If you have electronic ignition, try it with the correct coil and,
> if it runs fine, you are lucky that the unit was not damaged.
>
> Miki
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Sent from TriumphStag.NET [www.triumphstag.net]
↧
Search

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

June 8, 2014, 7:35 am
$
0
0
This is a common thing with "what is a 12 volt" coil - and ballast and the like.

A coil is like a transformer. I hope I don't get lectures from elec purists on what a transformer is (I DO understand what a transformer is - I am trying to keep it simple as no one wants a long boring electronics/electrics lecture).

Simply put - your coil is constructed of electrical windings and some are immersed in oil - you have run these at twice the voltage hence twice the heat it was designed for - so it could last forever - or it could die at any time.

Depending on what ignition you have (points/electronic) THEY could have been the problem as when Lucas plastic points are run too hot, they distort........I had a set melt in a cooper S when I fitted a 6 volt coil (no ballast) where it was meant to have a 12 volt coil.

If it were me? I can't remember what my last coil cost - about 30 bucks?? I'd just buy another one to be sure. If really strapped for cash - get an old one and carry it in the spare wheel well - because I wouldn't trust a "been overheated" coil. (I carry one in my Jag in the spare wheel - old bulletproof Bosch.

Fancy whiz bang coils and ultra high energy ignitons? Whatever - mine runs fine on standard ones - mine is the plastic bosch square one as cheap and easily available - although it IS mounted over near the wiper motor - NOT in the valley. Why put it where engine is hottest - AND in the way of dist adjustment???

The "12 volt coil" thing is fraught with danger - as they are ALL (or used to be) labelled "12 volt". That means "12 volt SYSTEM - not that the coil runs on 12 volts.

Bosch used to have "12" and "12R" coils. 12 meant 12 volt no ballast. 12R meant it was simply a 6 volt coil - but that would confuse the crap out of people - so they call it a 12R so that people KNOW it is for their 12 volt car and ballast. Half the voltage drops across the ballast/half across the coil - simple as that.

Why? Because when cold you can be cranking your car over with as little as 9 volts - so - a special circuit shorts the ballast out so that the 9 volts goes straight across the 6 volt coil (which it can handle for that short time) - so it starts - then reverts to 6 volt operating circuit.

THAT'S how it is supposed to work.

As far as a transformer - your coil uses transformer action as well as an inductance property that sees ultra high voltages induced from a decaying magnetic field - the combination of those two is what makes your spark.

So - use the coil you have and carry a second hand back up - or buy a new one..........that's what I would do.

Checking the resistance will tell you it is ok - if running you already know that. And your multimeter is low voltage and a fraction of the operating current - so meaningless for finding a "might break down under heat" fault. That is like having a pipe that runs at 1,000 psi and it is "ok at the moment" - and you test it for leaks at 5 PSI - if there is a leak there NOW - you'll find it - but if a crack that is waiting to burst - it will wait til working pressure and then heat/stress. So multimeter tells you stuffed - not intermittent or heat damaged.
↧
↧

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

June 8, 2014, 9:05 am
$
0
0
Thanks
I checked all the wiring and it seems the coil was installed correctly.
It reads 1.5 on the ohms setting of my multimeter but wanders to 1.6
and back again. The old coil stays at a solid 1.5

However I have no spark at all now.

I presume the white orange that leaves the ballast at the one wire end
goes back into the loom and re-emerges a bit further along to join the
coil.

Ballast resistor is reading 1.5 Ohms across the two terminal so there
is continuity through that component.

Also with Ign ON I have 12.08 Volts at one end of the Ballast resistor.
I cant reach the other terminal with the probe but I expect it will
read whatever 1.5 ohms would drop it to.

When I measure the volts at coil + with ign switched on I see .779 Volts.
I don't really understand the decimal point here.
When Ign is off I have 2.60 volts on the multimeter at coil +.
The multimeter has a 9 volt battery. Is the problem a flat Multimeter battery?
When I measure the car battery + terminal to earth I have steady 12.6
volts showing.

When the multimeter is not connected but switched to volts the value
is jumping all over the place from 20 up and down to 150.

I someone can explain all this it will be most helpful. At the end I
think my Lumenition has died when cooling over night


PeterH








Electrics as usual defeats me.

Peter H
↧

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

June 9, 2014, 12:56 am
$
0
0
Hi Peter;

I used to teach electrical fundamentals for the navy.

The guys used to ALWAYS use the ultra sensitive digital meters over the moving coil meters - and continually make mistakes and rip themselves off.

On the bridge of a destroyer the guys couldn't fix a primitive dimmer circuit (lots of coils of wire) cos they had the ultra sensitive dig meter - I asked them to go and get me the "old Avo" - they thought it was because "the stupid old Chief can't use the new meter" - no - found the fault in one minute - as the OLD meter only measured voltages that are there - wheras the dig meter read up to 100 volts when not connected - due to induced magnetic fields.

Point is - modern digital meters are so sensitive they measure all sorts of things that aren't there - try measuring indicator voltages - just flashing pixels - a test lamp or coil meter is better. A coil circuit is inductive - so magnetic fields all over the place - hence possible wild readings.

So get yourself a simple non electronic meter - (you aren't aligning gunnery radar receivers where you NEED ultra sensitive!!!) they cost about 8 bucks on e bay.

Also - this is a DC circuit - but uses semi AC principles (transformer/inductor) so the meter can be confused.

OK - lets break this down.

It is a series circuit - the voltage must drop ACROSS the circuit and add up to the supply - the current is the same THROUGHOUT the circuit. Therefore - when points are open (I know you have lumention - bear with me) there will be NO current flow - hence no volt drop - so - voltage should be 12 volts both side of coil.

When points CLOSE - you should have 12/6 on either side of ballast - so therefore 6/0 either side of coil (all to earth of course).

Lumenition harder to check - but typically the forward volt drop across a transistor/semiconductor junction is 0.6 to 0.8 volts. Now - that means you have 11 volts left - so when ON - from ballast/ballast/coil/coil you should have approx 12/6.5/6.5/0.8.......................or thereabouts.........

Make sense?

The "wander" you are seeing in the resistance reading is likely the meter - zero the leads and watch the value wander a bit - and around an energised coil with the mag fields?

Get a cheap "unsensitive" meter - best thing you'll ever do - keep the fancy meter for "set this critical voltage to 13.432 volts" and aligning the capture radar on the space shuttle.......... :P

E mail me if you aren't sure - kjhockey@tpg.com.au

Ken H
↧

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

June 9, 2014, 1:11 am
$
0
0
PS - I have a Piranha system on mine - it broke down the day I installed it (!!!!) and when I pulled it apart it had 3 connections pushed through the PCB but not soldered - so I soldered them. That was in 1999 - has been great ever since - although I DID modify something - electronic box meant to be under bonnet - didn't trust that with the extremities of underbonnet temp during cross Aust trips - so I relocated it inside up under glove box - been there ever since.

As I said before my coil is the Bosch square red one - that is as fancy as you need to go. I got that as smaller than standard - and works well in extreme heat - been there since 1999.

In Aust, the "old" style coils from Bosch are called "GT40 / GT40R. They are BOTH labelled as 12 volt coils - otherwise people wouldn't fit them. The "40" is non ballast/ the "40R" is ballast - and is essentially a 6 volt coil - as that is what it has across it.

The coil in my car is a "GT40RT" - the "T" alludes to it's transformer like construction - as it is square :P but they had to call it SOMETHING to dist it from the round ones.

Mine has worked very well in far hotter conditions than you will ever encounter unless your car catches fire....... :P
↧
↧

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

June 9, 2014, 1:16 am
↧

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

June 9, 2014, 4:02 am
$
0
0
Ken
Thanks for this - very thoughtful and helpful - sometimes the old gear
is better
I remember the film about bees and honey at the Chrome Plating factory.
My Multimeter is a trade one - Lucas - about 25 years old

I measured a new 9 volt rectangular multimeter battery which showed
9.67 steady
Put that in and measured the old battery = 9.67 steady
So Multimeter working and battery OK

I think the lumenition can be checked by putting a piece of card
between the electronic eyes. I will check the position of the chopper
anyway and leave the eyes seeing each other. I assume then this should
produce the 12 and 6 you refer to. I will give it a go later on.

If lumenition is dead I will replace it with a different solution.
I expect these things to last longer than 13 years and 45000 miles
which is when I last replaced it.


Thanks again for your help. I know most of the theory - it is when
strange things happen, like My AM Radio starts crackling like fury
after 40 miles, I then breakdown after 70 miles with very weak spark
(car starts but stops as soon as D engaged), change a coil, car and
Radio now OK and then 60 miles later I have weak spark symptoms again.
I thought the wiring was wrong but it isn't.

So on the basis of more heads than one is good I asked for ideas.

thanks again

PeterH






> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Hi Peter;
>
> I used to teach electrical fundamentals for the navy.
>
> The guys used to ALWAYS use the ultra sensitive digital meters over
> the moving coil meters - and continually make mistakes and rip
> themselves off.
>
> On the bridge of a destroyer the guys couldn't fix a primitive
> dimmer circuit (lots of coils of wire) cos they had the ultra
> sensitive dig meter - I asked them to go and get me the "old Avo" -
> they thought it was because "the stupid old Chief can't use the new
> meter" - no - found the fault in one minute - as the OLD meter only
> measured voltages that are there - wheras the dig meter read up to
> 100 volts when not connected - due to induced magnetic fields.
>
> Point is - modern digital meters are so sensitive they measure all
> sorts of things that aren't there - try measuring indicator voltages
> - just flashing pixels - a test lamp or coil meter is better. A coil
> circuit is inductive - so magnetic fields all over the place - hence
> possible wild readings.
>
> So get yourself a simple non electronic meter - (you aren't aligning
> gunnery radar receivers where you NEED ultra sensitive!!!) they cost
> about 8 bucks on e bay.
>
> Also - this is a DC circuit - but uses semi AC principles
> (transformer/inductor) so the meter can be confused.
>
> OK - lets break this down.
>
> It is a series circuit - the voltage must drop ACROSS the circuit
> and add up to the supply - the current is the same THROUGHOUT the
> circuit. Therefore - when points are open (I know you have lumention
> - bear with me) there will be NO current flow - hence no volt drop -
> so - voltage should be 12 volts both side of coil.
>
> When points CLOSE - you should have 12/6 on either side of ballast -
> so therefore 6/0 either side of coil (all to earth of course).
>
> Lumenition harder to check - but typically the forward volt drop
> across a transistor/semiconductor junction is 0.6 to 0.8 volts. Now
> - that means you have 11 volts left - so when ON - from
> ballast/ballast/coil/coil you should have approx
> 12/6.5/6.5/0.8.......................or thereabouts.........
>
> Make sense?
>
> The "wander" you are seeing in the resistance reading is likely the
> meter - zero the leads and watch the value wander a bit - and around
> an energised coil with the mag fields?
>
> Get a cheap "unsensitive" meter - best thing you'll ever do - keep
> the fancy meter for "set this critical voltage to 13.432 volts" and
> aligning the capture radar on the space shuttle.......... :P
>
> E mail me if you aren't sure - kjhockey@tpg.com.au
>
> Ken H
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Sent from TriumphStag.NET [www.triumphstag.net]
↧

light on dash

June 10, 2014, 12:35 am
$
0
0
hi all. why is the red light on the dashboard under the fresh air vent there that comes on with the hand brake when there is also one on the cluster of lights. thanks bob.
↧
Search

Re: [stag] light on dash

June 10, 2014, 1:26 am
$
0
0
That's your PDWA failure warning light.

The PDWA (Pressure Differential Warning Actuator) warns of a failure in either
the front or rear brake circuit. However , if the bulb blew and then you had a
failure in one brake circuit, you might not know - apart from poor brakes !

So , the handbrake warning is wired through that light so you can check the
bulb (earlier cars had it wired through the oil warning light)

If you pull your handbrake on and it doesn't light then (probably) the bulb
has blown.

Cheers

Julian



Sent from my iPhone

> On 10 Jun 2014, at 08:35, "gripper180" <EmailWitheld> wrote:
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
> hi all. why is the red light on the dashboard under the fresh air vent there
that comes on with the hand brake when there is also one on the cluster of
lights. thanks bob.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Sent from TriumphStag.NET [www.triumphstag.net]
↧
↧

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

June 11, 2014, 8:11 am
$
0
0
Hi Peter,

First, about the multimeters. Resistances of few ohms can only be measured with digital multimeters; the old analogue ones do not have such measurement range unless they are very special. To measure a resistance of a few ohms (with a digital), you need to first connect the probes to each other firmly and take the reading, usually 0.3 to 0.5 ohm (unless you have a multimeter that can be zeroed), then deduct this reading from the reading you get when checking the coil or the ballast to get its actual resistance.

As I understand, you do not get 12 or 6 volt on the + of the coil with the ignition "on". This is strange and suggests that the supply is interrupted somewhere in the wiring or in the ballast resistor (one terminal of the ballast is connected directly to the "+" of the coil, the other gets +12V from the ignition switch; this could be through the Tachometer if it is MK1) or perhaps in the Tachometer (if MK1). The lack of 12 or 6 volt on the + of the coil with the ignition "on" is not related to the Lumenition as the unit switches the negative side of the coil, i.e. it is connected between the "-" of the coil and the ground. Even if the unit is bad, you should still get 12 or 6 volt on the "+" of the coil.

A simpler and more reliable test is to use a bulb (say 21W) and connect its one side to the ground and the other to the "+" of the coil. If the bulb lights (bright or dimmed) with the ignition "on", the supply to the coil (through the ballast) is good. Otherwise, check the wiring. An important thing about Lumenition is that its wire that goes to the ground is very well grounded (not just to any point on the body, best is to run a thicker wire to it from the negative battery strap).

Miki
↧

where in the US are people ordering door furflex from?

June 12, 2014, 5:27 pm
$
0
0
I have same left overs from another car but not enough for two door frames. The off cuts are slightly different but fit

Were are US folks buying this stuff from?

Sujit
↧

[stag] Re: stag-digest V4 #4451

June 12, 2014, 6:03 pm
$
0
0
I get them from here:
[www.macgregorukcarparts.com]
Excellent quality. JD


> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 00:27:59 +0000
> From: "sujitroy" <EmailWitheld>
> Subject: [stag] where in the US are people ordering door furflex from?

> I have same left overs from another car but not enough for two door
> frames. The off cuts are slightly different but fit
>
> Were are US folks buying this stuff from?
>
> Sujit
↧

[stag] RE: where in the US are people ordering door furflex from?

June 12, 2014, 9:37 pm
↧
↧

Re: [stag] RE: where in the US are people ordering door furflex from?

June 12, 2014, 10:09 pm
$
0
0
Hello Rodney,
U don't by any chance have a part no. for TRF (easier to find)
Sujit


________________________________
From: Rodney Trout
<troutster@hotmail.com>
To: "stag-digest@digest.net" <stag-digest@digest.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 9:37 PM
Subject: [stag] RE: where in the US are
people ordering door furflex from?


I ordered mine from TRF.
↧

[stag] Stag Digest Advertisers: regular posting

June 12, 2014, 10:40 pm
↧
Search

Re: [stag] Is my New Coil destroyed? Electrical Wizards needed again

June 13, 2014, 12:02 pm
$
0
0
Thank you Miki Brilliant reply
You understand what I have going on here
The 0.769 voltage is just the back voltage from the lumenition.
There is nothing at coil + so wiring it is!
I will report when I have had a chance to check
Thanks again
Peter H
↧

Re: [stag] light on dash

June 14, 2014, 12:52 am
$
0
0
This has always been addressed in a confusing fashion in the books.

The diagram shows the two circuits with a bridge between them which would make both handbrake/brake light come on when either PDWA (brake fail) OR handbrake switch came on - which is what you describe above - ALL the diagrams in both Haynes and factory manual show this.

However, on page 70.00.02 of the factory manual - it says that the OIL light and PDWA light are in SERIES when key on engine not running - so both glow at half brilliance to check - and this doesn't agree with any of the diagrams in that same manual.

The "glove box guide" handbook confirms this "both PDWA/OIL glow half brilliance" at ign on / engine not running.

And the third option? What my car does - when you crank the engine the PDWA light flashes to check the bulb - which isn't in the description OR the circuit diagrams.

I don't really care about the PDWA light anyway. I had one circuit fail when I had a "nick" in the master cylinder - brakes worked when applied for a short time (stops) but when you sat at the lights for a while the pedal would start firm - then (with firm pressure) slowly sink to halfway were it then remained firm. So - both sets worked initially - then pressure would drop in rear brake cct under constant presssure = pedal drop until take up for front cct only.

So I figure anyone who drives a Stag knows enough about their car to know when the brake pedal travels twice as far as normal.........and fix it/have it looked at.

And in that one instance when I lost one cct? Brake fail light DIDN'T come on anyway!

Waste of time I reckon.......
↧
↧

Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

June 14, 2014, 7:44 am
$
0
0
Hello Forum,

As a follow-up to my recent submission about "click-nothing" I purchased the starter relay from our friends at EJ Ward. Attached it this morning following the directions and I have 2 issues I hope someone can help with.

1. after attaching the relay and starting the car (first time!) the starter/solenoid continued to spin while the car was running.
2. I could not turn the car off with the key! I had to remove the relay and the car and starter both stopped.

So please someone tell me what I have done wrong.

Thanks
Ed

1973
↧

Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

June 14, 2014, 9:40 am
$
0
0
A few questions:

1. Is it a small cube relay, i.e. a standard car relay rated at 20 or 30 Amps?

2. Does your Stag have a relief relay - a relay that will switch the heater blower fan and some other things off while cranking? (I don't think Stag has one, perhaps some models)

3. I believe you have disconnected the wire from the starter solenoid (white/red) and connected it (only) to one of the terminals of the relay coil (the other relay coil terminal goes to the ground), please confirm.

4. Where did you connect the two relay switch terminals?

Miki
↧

Re: Starter Relay from EJWARD post click nothing issue

June 14, 2014, 10:07 am
$
0
0
Hi Miki,

yes, small cube 30 amp. directions are as follows:

White/red (blade terminal) - connect to the starter trigger wire at the starter solenoid, (remove wire usually white / red from the solenoid and connect directly to the blade terminal.

Brown/red (spade terminal) connect to starter trigger terminal on starter solenoid, where previous white / red wire was connected.

Brown (ring terminal) connect to 8mm (5/16) stud at solenoid, battery side.

Black (ring terminal) connect to a suitable earth point.

I do not believe I have a relief relay of any sorts.

Ed
↧
Viewing all 1781 articles
Browse latest View live
Search